----- Original Message -----
From: <miatapower-request@???>
To: <miatapower@???>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:58 PM
Sorry, Thinking American cars . Remind me to keep my fingers off the
keyboard!!
. aSubject: Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 8
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs) (Steven Jacobs)
> 2. Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs) (Chad J. Douglas)
> 3. Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs) (Sam Sharp)
> 4. Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs) (Chad J. Douglas)
> 5. Miatafest? And FM Summer Camp. (Bill Cardell)
> 6. Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs) (Sam Sharp)
> 7. Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs) (Chad J. Douglas)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:37:39 -0700
> From: "Steven Jacobs" <stevej@???>
> To: <miatapower@???>
> Subject: Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs)
> Message-ID: <544F036F81A844D09B7B8643F3FEDE73@MULTIMEDIA>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Did you use the right bolts when connecting the torque converter to the
> flex
> plate. If they are too long they will keep the engine from turning.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <miatapower-request@???>
> To: <miatapower@???>
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:02 PM
> Subject: Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>
>
>> Send Miatapower mailing list submissions to
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>>
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>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Miatapower digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> 2. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Ken Bogart)
>> 3. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>> 4. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>> 5. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> 6. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>> 7. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> 8. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>> 9. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:03:09 -0400
>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, Stephanie Turner
>> <stepht@???>
>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>,
>> "miatapower-bounces@???"
>> <miatapower-bounces@???>
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID: <C863AC5D.10808%chad@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>
>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>> the
>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
>> in
>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>
>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>> (it's
>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer firmly
>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>> the
>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the starter
>> was
>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able to
>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine movement.
>>
>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume that
>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>> that
>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being installed
>> somehow.
>>
>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>> could
>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>> stumped,
>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>> combo
>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of labor...so
>> I'm
>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
>> still in the car to free it.
>>
>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it, and
>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the crank
>> bolt using the same method.
>>
>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>
>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------
>>> Chad Douglas
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>>> <stepht@???>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie
>>>>
>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>> www.bellengineering.net
>>>>
>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an e-mail.
>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>
>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>
>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
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>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:06:57 -0400
>> From: Ken Bogart <miata@???>
>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> Cc: "miatapower-bounces@???"
>> <miatapower-bounces@???>, "miatapower@???"
>> <miatapower@???>
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID:
>> <AANLkTimDZBbDfwtNSyLT_e7rWZCbNytoRBT43YbosFmk@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Its got to be the transmission. Sounds like its time to pull the engine
>> again... If you're still at it Tuesday, I can come over and heckle....
>>
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Chad J. Douglas
>> <chad@???>wrote:
>>
>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>
>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>> the
>>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
>>> in
>>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>
>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>> (it's
>>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>> firmly
>>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>>> the
>>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the starter
>>> was
>>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>>> to
>>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine movement.
>>>
>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>> that
>>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>>> that
>>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>>> installed
>>> somehow.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>> could
>>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>> stumped,
>>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>>> combo
>>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of labor...so
>>> I'm
>>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
>>> still in the car to free it.
>>>
>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>> and
>>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>> crank
>>> bolt using the same method.
>>>
>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>> >
>>> > Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------
>>> > Chad Douglas
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner <
>>> stepht@???>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>> >>
>>> >> Stephanie
>>> >>
>>> >> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>> >> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>> >> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>> >> www.bellengineering.net
>>> >>
>>> >> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>>> >> e-mail.
>>> >> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>> >> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>> >> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> >>
>>> >> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>> >> manual and auto cars?
>>> >> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Miatapower mailing list
>>> >> Miatapower@???
>>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Miatapower mailing list
>>> >> Miatapower@???
>>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Miatapower mailing list
>>> > Miatapower@???
>>> > http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:12:15 -0600
>> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "Stephanie Turner"
>> <stepht@???>
>> Cc: miatapower-bounces@???, miatapower@???
>> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID:
>> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB15E@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Hmm. How about this? Maybe you didn't get the torque converter seated
>> into the trans properly, so instead of it sliding onto splines, it's
>> jammed, making the tq converter stick out too much? That's my new vote.
>>
>>
>> Bill Cardell
>> TurboDog's Dad
>> www.flyinmiata.com
>> www.fmwestfield.com
>> Sales 1-800-359-6957
>> Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out
>> http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:03 PM
>> To: Chad J. Douglas; Stephanie Turner
>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>
>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>
>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>> the cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>> slack in the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>
>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>> (it's REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>> firmly fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
>> levering the teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure
>> if the starter was causing the bind, and since the starter was now
>> loose, I would be able to see the starter move somewhat and get a small
>> amount of engine movement.
>>
>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>> that somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the
>> engine...and that this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo
>> was being installed somehow.
>>
>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>> could the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>> stumped, and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and
>> tranny combo again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot
>> of labor...so I'm looking for any other ideas for things that can be
>> done with the engine still in the car to free it.
>>
>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>> and only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>> crank bolt using the same method.
>>
>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>
>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------
>>> Chad Douglas
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>>> <stepht@???>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie
>>>>
>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>> www.bellengineering.net
>>>>
>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>> e-mail.
>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>
>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>
>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@???
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miatapower mailing list
>> Miatapower@???
>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:42:07 -0600
>> From: derf <derf247@???>
>> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>
>> Cc: miatapower@???, miatapower-bounces@???
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID:
>> <AANLkTilBPZokLsGlzDF1-7UdZ1U7NnqwadzbKHvG4mDa@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> I think you're on to something. Aren't you supposed to bolt the
>> torque converter to the flex plate AFTER the motor/trans are bolted
>> together?
>>
>> "The motor turned over just fine by hand while I was bolting the
>> torque converter to the flexplate.
>>
>> Then, we installed the engine, and I proceeded to hook everything up. "
>>
>> You can bolt the TC on first but then it is sometimes hard to line up
>> the splines and or the flats on the TC with the tranny input shaft and
>> trans pump.
>> Does the Miata auto TC have flats that engage the trans pump like
>> other cars? If so, he might have damaged his pump.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:41:18 -0400
>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> To: derf <derf247@???>, "miatapower@???"
>> <miatapower@???>
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID: <C863DF7E.1082B%chad@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Putting this reply back to the list so everyone interested can see:
>>
>> Yes. Here's the process:
>>
>>
>> Engine and tranny are out of the car.
>> I put the tq onto the input shaft of the tranny
>> I mated the tranny to the engine, whilst simultaneously sliding the tq
>> studs
>> through the holes In the flexplate.
>> I then put enough (but not all) the tranny bolts in to fully mate the
>> engine
>> and transmission.
>> I then turned the motor over slowly to expose each tq stud so that I
>> could
>> put the nuts on. I installed all 4 nuts. I turned the engine one moer
>> complete revolution to check them all.
>> I then installed the starter.
>> We then put the engine/tranny combo into the car.
>>
>>
>> I did not try to turn the engine over again until the engine was fully
>> installed and ready to test-fire.
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/10 9:34 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>
>>> So, it turned after the motor/tranny bolts were tightened?
>>> If so you need to pull the starter all the way off. Loosening the
>>> bolts might not be good enough if the bendix is stuck to the
>>> flexplate.
>>>
>>> Something is missing. More information is needed. Did you bolt the
>>> tranny to the motor and then install them together?
>>> Or, did you install the tranny with the motor in place?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:04:09 -0600
>> From: derf <derf247@???>
>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID:
>> <AANLkTikasxgVx5HC_qqzb7R-p0MQO_UofYg1zUsHrxV5@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached to
>> it.
>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:13:03 -0400
>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> To: derf <derf247@???>
>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID: <C863E6EF.10832%chad@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>
>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>> align
>> the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>
>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to remove
>> that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on a lift.
>>
>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>
>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>> anything
>> until sometime on Saturday.
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>
>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>> to
>>> it.
>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:53:44 -0600
>> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "derf"
>> <derf247@???>
>> Cc: miatapower@???
>> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID:
>> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB166@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>>
>>
>> Bill Cardell
>> TurboDog's Dad
>> Flyin' Miata
>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>> www.flyinmiata.com
>> www.fmwestfield.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>> To: derf
>> Cc: miatapower@???
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>
>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>
>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>
>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on
>> a lift.
>>
>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>
>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>
>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>> to it.
>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miatapower mailing list
>> Miatapower@???
>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:15:03 -0400
>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>, derf <derf247@???>
>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> Message-ID: <C863F577.10838%chad@???>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Yup. Plugs out. Even a hydrolocked engine will move a little. This
>> engine
>> will not turn one micron. It's like it's welded.
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/10 10:53 PM, "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???> wrote:
>>
>>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Cardell
>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>> Flyin' Miata
>>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>>> www.flyinmiata.com
>>> www.fmwestfield.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>>> To: derf
>>> Cc: miatapower@???
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>
>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>
>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>
>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on
>>> a lift.
>>>
>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>
>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>> to it.
>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@???
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miatapower mailing list
>> Miatapower@???
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>>
>>
>> End of Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>> *****************************************
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:51:33 -0400
> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
> To: Steven Jacobs <stevej@???>, "miatapower@???"
> <miatapower@???>
> Subject: Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs)
> Message-ID: <C8650935.108F7%chad@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> They are studs, welded on.
>
>
> On 7/15/10 6:37 PM, "Steven Jacobs" <stevej@???> wrote:
>
>> Did you use the right bolts when connecting the torque converter to the
>> flex
>> plate. If they are too long they will keep the engine from turning.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <miatapower-request@???>
>> To: <miatapower@???>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:02 PM
>> Subject: Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>>
>>
>>> Send Miatapower mailing list submissions to
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Miatapower digest..."
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 2. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Ken Bogart)
>>> 3. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>>> 4. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>>> 5. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 6. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>>> 7. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 8. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>>> 9. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:03:09 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, Stephanie Turner
>>> <stepht@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>,
>>> "miatapower-bounces@???"
>>> <miatapower-bounces@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863AC5D.10808%chad@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>
>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>> the
>>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
>>> in
>>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>
>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>> (it's
>>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>> firmly
>>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>>> the
>>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the starter
>>> was
>>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>>> to
>>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine movement.
>>>
>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>> that
>>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>>> that
>>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>>> installed
>>> somehow.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>> could
>>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>> stumped,
>>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>>> combo
>>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of labor...so
>>> I'm
>>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
>>> still in the car to free it.
>>>
>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>> and
>>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>> crank
>>> bolt using the same method.
>>>
>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>
>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------
>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>>>> <stepht@???>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>> www.bellengineering.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an e-mail.
>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>
>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:06:57 -0400
>>> From: Ken Bogart <miata@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower-bounces@???"
>>> <miatapower-bounces@???>, "miatapower@???"
>>> <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTimDZBbDfwtNSyLT_e7rWZCbNytoRBT43YbosFmk@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Its got to be the transmission. Sounds like its time to pull the engine
>>> again... If you're still at it Tuesday, I can come over and heckle....
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Chad J. Douglas
>>> <chad@???>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>>> the
>>>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
>>>> in
>>>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>>
>>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>>> (it's
>>>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>>> firmly
>>>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>>>> the
>>>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the
>>>> starter
>>>> was
>>>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>>>> to
>>>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine
>>>> movement.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>>> that
>>>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>>>> that
>>>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>>>> installed
>>>> somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>>> could
>>>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>>> stumped,
>>>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>>>> combo
>>>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of
>>>> labor...so
>>>> I'm
>>>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
>>>> still in the car to free it.
>>>>
>>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>>> and
>>>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>>> crank
>>>> bolt using the same method.
>>>>
>>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------
>>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner <
>>>> stepht@???>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>>> www.bellengineering.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>>>>>> e-mail.
>>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL:
>>> <http://list.miatapower.net/lurker/list/miatapower.html/attachments/20100714/
>>> 4ef90395/attachment.html>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:12:15 -0600
>>> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "Stephanie Turner"
>>> <stepht@???>
>>> Cc: miatapower-bounces@???, miatapower@???
>>> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB15E@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Hmm. How about this? Maybe you didn't get the torque converter seated
>>> into the trans properly, so instead of it sliding onto splines, it's
>>> jammed, making the tq converter stick out too much? That's my new vote.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Cardell
>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>> www.flyinmiata.com
>>> www.fmwestfield.com
>>> Sales 1-800-359-6957
>>> Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out
>>> http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:03 PM
>>> To: Chad J. Douglas; Stephanie Turner
>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>
>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>
>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>> the cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>>> slack in the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>
>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>> (it's REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>> firmly fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
>>> levering the teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure
>>> if the starter was causing the bind, and since the starter was now
>>> loose, I would be able to see the starter move somewhat and get a small
>>> amount of engine movement.
>>>
>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>> that somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the
>>> engine...and that this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo
>>> was being installed somehow.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>> could the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>> stumped, and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and
>>> tranny combo again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot
>>> of labor...so I'm looking for any other ideas for things that can be
>>> done with the engine still in the car to free it.
>>>
>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>> and only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>> crank bolt using the same method.
>>>
>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>
>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------
>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>>>> <stepht@???>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>> www.bellengineering.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>>> e-mail.
>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>
>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@???
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:42:07 -0600
>>> From: derf <derf247@???>
>>> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>
>>> Cc: miatapower@???, miatapower-bounces@???
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTilBPZokLsGlzDF1-7UdZ1U7NnqwadzbKHvG4mDa@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> I think you're on to something. Aren't you supposed to bolt the
>>> torque converter to the flex plate AFTER the motor/trans are bolted
>>> together?
>>>
>>> "The motor turned over just fine by hand while I was bolting the
>>> torque converter to the flexplate.
>>>
>>> Then, we installed the engine, and I proceeded to hook everything up. "
>>>
>>> You can bolt the TC on first but then it is sometimes hard to line up
>>> the splines and or the flats on the TC with the tranny input shaft and
>>> trans pump.
>>> Does the Miata auto TC have flats that engage the trans pump like
>>> other cars? If so, he might have damaged his pump.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:41:18 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> To: derf <derf247@???>, "miatapower@???"
>>> <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863DF7E.1082B%chad@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Putting this reply back to the list so everyone interested can see:
>>>
>>> Yes. Here's the process:
>>>
>>>
>>> Engine and tranny are out of the car.
>>> I put the tq onto the input shaft of the tranny
>>> I mated the tranny to the engine, whilst simultaneously sliding the tq
>>> studs
>>> through the holes In the flexplate.
>>> I then put enough (but not all) the tranny bolts in to fully mate the
>>> engine
>>> and transmission.
>>> I then turned the motor over slowly to expose each tq stud so that I
>>> could
>>> put the nuts on. I installed all 4 nuts. I turned the engine one moer
>>> complete revolution to check them all.
>>> I then installed the starter.
>>> We then put the engine/tranny combo into the car.
>>>
>>>
>>> I did not try to turn the engine over again until the engine was fully
>>> installed and ready to test-fire.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 9:34 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, it turned after the motor/tranny bolts were tightened?
>>>> If so you need to pull the starter all the way off. Loosening the
>>>> bolts might not be good enough if the bendix is stuck to the
>>>> flexplate.
>>>>
>>>> Something is missing. More information is needed. Did you bolt the
>>>> tranny to the motor and then install them together?
>>>> Or, did you install the tranny with the motor in place?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:04:09 -0600
>>> From: derf <derf247@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTikasxgVx5HC_qqzb7R-p0MQO_UofYg1zUsHrxV5@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>> to
>>> it.
>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:13:03 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> To: derf <derf247@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863E6EF.10832%chad@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>
>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>> align
>>> the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>
>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>> remove
>>> that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on a
>>> lift.
>>>
>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>
>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>> anything
>>> until sometime on Saturday.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>>> to
>>>> it.
>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:53:44 -0600
>>> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "derf"
>>> <derf247@???>
>>> Cc: miatapower@???
>>> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB166@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Cardell
>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>> Flyin' Miata
>>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>>> www.flyinmiata.com
>>> www.fmwestfield.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>>> To: derf
>>> Cc: miatapower@???
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>
>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>
>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>
>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on
>>> a lift.
>>>
>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>
>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>> to it.
>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@???
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:15:03 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>, derf <derf247@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863F577.10838%chad@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Yup. Plugs out. Even a hydrolocked engine will move a little. This
>>> engine
>>> will not turn one micron. It's like it's welded.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:53 PM, "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Cardell
>>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>>> Flyin' Miata
>>>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>>>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>>>> www.flyinmiata.com
>>>> www.fmwestfield.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>>>> To: derf
>>>> Cc: miatapower@???
>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>>
>>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>>
>>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car
>>>> on
>>>> a lift.
>>>>
>>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>>
>>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>>> to it.
>>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@???
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miatapower mailing list
>> Miatapower@???
>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:07:29 -0600
> From: Sam Sharp <miataturbo@???>
> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
> Cc: Steven Jacobs <stevej@???>, "miatapower@???"
> <miatapower@???>
> Subject: Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs)
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimdCh-_21AxFmFjh7FHXWiqySpQaCF8317tx18-@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'm still trying to figure out the sequence. It sounds like you installed
> the tranny (tightening all of the bellhousing bolts?) and then rotated the
> engine (and torque converter?) while installing the TC bolts. All of this
> was with the engine out of the car. So it rotated until you did the last
> bolt? Did it rotate AFTER the last bolt? Then you installed the starter.
> Did it rotate before you installed the starter? Did it rotate after you
> installed the starter?
>
>
> So now the engine and tranny are in the car and it's locked up. You
> loosened the starter and it's still locked up. Can you loosen the
> bellhousing bolts with it in the car? Can you unbolt the torque converter
> with it in the car?
>
> Sam
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Chad J. Douglas
> <chad@???>wrote:
>
>> They are studs, welded on.
>>
>>
>> On 7/15/10 6:37 PM, "Steven Jacobs" <stevej@???> wrote:
>>
>> > Did you use the right bolts when connecting the torque converter to the
>> flex
>> > plate. If they are too long they will keep the engine from turning.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <miatapower-request@???>
>> > To: <miatapower@???>
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:02 PM
>> > Subject: Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>> >
>> >
>> >> Send Miatapower mailing list submissions to
>> >> miatapower@???
>> >>
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>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>> >>
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>> >> than "Re: Contents of Miatapower digest..."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Today's Topics:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> >> 2. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Ken Bogart)
>> >> 3. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>> >> 4. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>> >> 5. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> >> 6. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>> >> 7. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> >> 8. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>> >> 9. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 1
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:03:09 -0400
>> >> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, Stephanie Turner
>> >> <stepht@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>,
>> >> "miatapower-bounces@???"
>> >> <miatapower-bounces@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <C863AC5D.10808%chad@???<C863AC5D.10808%25chad@???>
>> >
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Crappity crap crap crap.
>> >>
>> >> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do
>> >> with
>> >> the
>> >> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>> >> slack
>> in
>> >> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>> >>
>> >> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>> >> (it's
>> >> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>> firmly
>> >> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>> the
>> >> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the
>> >> starter
>> >> was
>> >> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>> to
>> >> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine
>> >> movement.
>> >>
>> >> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>> that
>> >> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>> that
>> >> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>> installed
>> >> somehow.
>> >>
>> >> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>> >> could
>> >> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>> stumped,
>> >> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>> >> combo
>> >> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of
>> >> labor...so
>> >> I'm
>> >> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the
>> >> engine
>> >> still in the car to free it.
>> >>
>> >> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt
>> >> and
>> >> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>> and
>> >> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>> crank
>> >> bolt using the same method.
>> >>
>> >> Something's got the engine held fast.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>> >>>
>> >>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------
>> >>> Chad Douglas
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>> >>> <stepht@???>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Stephanie
>> >>>>
>> >>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>> >>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>> >>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>> >>>> www.bellengineering.net
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>> >>>> e-mail.
>> >>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>> >>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>> >>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> >>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>> >>>> manual and auto cars?
>> >>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>> Miatapower@???
>> >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 2
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:06:57 -0400
>> >> From: Ken Bogart <miata@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower-bounces@???"
>> >> <miatapower-bounces@???>, "miatapower@???"
>> >> <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <AANLkTimDZBbDfwtNSyLT_e7rWZCbNytoRBT43YbosFmk@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >>
>> >> Its got to be the transmission. Sounds like its time to pull the
>> >> engine
>> >> again... If you're still at it Tuesday, I can come over and
>> >> heckle....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ken
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Chad J. Douglas
>> >> <chad@???>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>> >>>
>> >>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do
>> >>> with
>> >>> the
>> >>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>> >>> slack
>> >>> in
>> >>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>> >>>
>> >>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>> >>> (it's
>> >>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>> firmly
>> >>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
>> >>> levering
>> >>> the
>> >>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the
>> starter
>> >>> was
>> >>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be
>> >>> able
>> to
>> >>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine
>> movement.
>> >>>
>> >>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>> that
>> >>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>> >>> that
>> >>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>> installed
>> >>> somehow.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>> >>> could
>> >>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>> >>> stumped,
>> >>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>> >>> combo
>> >>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of
>> labor...so
>> >>> I'm
>> >>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the
>> >>> engine
>> >>> still in the car to free it.
>> >>>
>> >>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt
>> >>> and
>> >>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>> and
>> >>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>> crank
>> >>> bolt using the same method.
>> >>>
>> >>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------------------------
>> >>>> Chad Douglas
>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner <
>> >>> stepht@???>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Stephanie
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>> >>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>> >>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>> >>>>> www.bellengineering.net
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>> e-mail.
>> >>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>> >>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>> >>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>> >>>>> manual and auto cars?
>> >>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>> Miatapower@???
>> >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL:
>> >> <
>> http://list.miatapower.net/lurker/list/miatapower.html/attachments/20100714/
>> >> 4ef90395/attachment.html>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 3
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:12:15 -0600
>> >> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "Stephanie Turner"
>> >> <stepht@???>
>> >> Cc: miatapower-bounces@???, miatapower@???
>> >> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB15E@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Hmm. How about this? Maybe you didn't get the torque converter seated
>> >> into the trans properly, so instead of it sliding onto splines, it's
>> >> jammed, making the tq converter stick out too much? That's my new
>> >> vote.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bill Cardell
>> >> TurboDog's Dad
>> >> www.flyinmiata.com
>> >> www.fmwestfield.com
>> >> Sales 1-800-359-6957
>> >> Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out
>> >> http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>> >> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J.
>> >> Douglas
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:03 PM
>> >> To: Chad J. Douglas; Stephanie Turner
>> >> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>
>> >> Crappity crap crap crap.
>> >>
>> >> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do
>> >> with
>> >> the cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>> >> slack in the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>> >>
>> >> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>> >> (it's REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no
>> >> longer
>> >> firmly fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
>> >> levering the teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure
>> >> if the starter was causing the bind, and since the starter was now
>> >> loose, I would be able to see the starter move somewhat and get a
>> >> small
>> >> amount of engine movement.
>> >>
>> >> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>> >> that somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the
>> >> engine...and that this must've occurred while the engine / tranny
>> >> combo
>> >> was being installed somehow.
>> >>
>> >> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>> >> could the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked?
>> >> I'm
>> >> stumped, and my next course of action would be to remove the engine
>> >> and
>> >> tranny combo again to get better access to everything, but that's a
>> >> lot
>> >> of labor...so I'm looking for any other ideas for things that can be
>> >> done with the engine still in the car to free it.
>> >>
>> >> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt
>> >> and
>> >> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>> >> and only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened
>> >> the
>> >> crank bolt using the same method.
>> >>
>> >> Something's got the engine held fast.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>> >>>
>> >>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------
>> >>> Chad Douglas
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>> >>> <stepht@???>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Stephanie
>> >>>>
>> >>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>> >>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>> >>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>> >>>> www.bellengineering.net
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>> >> e-mail.
>> >>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>> >>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>> >>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> >>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>> >>>> manual and auto cars?
>> >>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>> Miatapower@???
>> >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Miatapower mailing list
>> >> Miatapower@???
>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 4
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:42:07 -0600
>> >> From: derf <derf247@???>
>> >> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>
>> >> Cc: miatapower@???, miatapower-bounces@???
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <AANLkTilBPZokLsGlzDF1-7UdZ1U7NnqwadzbKHvG4mDa@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >>
>> >> I think you're on to something. Aren't you supposed to bolt the
>> >> torque converter to the flex plate AFTER the motor/trans are bolted
>> >> together?
>> >>
>> >> "The motor turned over just fine by hand while I was bolting the
>> >> torque converter to the flexplate.
>> >>
>> >> Then, we installed the engine, and I proceeded to hook everything up.
>> >> "
>> >>
>> >> You can bolt the TC on first but then it is sometimes hard to line up
>> >> the splines and or the flats on the TC with the tranny input shaft and
>> >> trans pump.
>> >> Does the Miata auto TC have flats that engage the trans pump like
>> >> other cars? If so, he might have damaged his pump.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 5
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:41:18 -0400
>> >> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> To: derf <derf247@???>, "miatapower@???"
>> >> <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <C863DF7E.1082B%chad@???<C863DF7E.1082B%25chad@???>
>> >
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Putting this reply back to the list so everyone interested can see:
>> >>
>> >> Yes. Here's the process:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Engine and tranny are out of the car.
>> >> I put the tq onto the input shaft of the tranny
>> >> I mated the tranny to the engine, whilst simultaneously sliding the tq
>> >> studs
>> >> through the holes In the flexplate.
>> >> I then put enough (but not all) the tranny bolts in to fully mate the
>> >> engine
>> >> and transmission.
>> >> I then turned the motor over slowly to expose each tq stud so that I
>> could
>> >> put the nuts on. I installed all 4 nuts. I turned the engine one
>> >> moer
>> >> complete revolution to check them all.
>> >> I then installed the starter.
>> >> We then put the engine/tranny combo into the car.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I did not try to turn the engine over again until the engine was fully
>> >> installed and ready to test-fire.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 9:34 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> So, it turned after the motor/tranny bolts were tightened?
>> >>> If so you need to pull the starter all the way off. Loosening the
>> >>> bolts might not be good enough if the bendix is stuck to the
>> >>> flexplate.
>> >>>
>> >>> Something is missing. More information is needed. Did you bolt the
>> >>> tranny to the motor and then install them together?
>> >>> Or, did you install the tranny with the motor in place?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 6
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:04:09 -0600
>> >> From: derf <derf247@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <AANLkTikasxgVx5HC_qqzb7R-p0MQO_UofYg1zUsHrxV5@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >>
>> >> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>> to
>> >> it.
>> >> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>> >> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> >> Inquiring minds want to know.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 7
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:13:03 -0400
>> >> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> To: derf <derf247@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <C863E6EF.10832%chad@???<C863E6EF.10832%25chad@???>
>> >
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Well, I consulted AllData.
>> >>
>> >> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>> >> align
>> >> the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>> >>
>> >> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>> remove
>> >> that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on a
>> lift.
>> >>
>> >> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>> >>
>> >> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>> anything
>> >> until sometime on Saturday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still
>> >>> attached
>> to
>> >>> it.
>> >>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>> >>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> >>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 8
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:53:44 -0600
>> >> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "derf"
>> >> <derf247@???>
>> >> Cc: miatapower@???
>> >> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB166@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bill Cardell
>> >> TurboDog's Dad
>> >> Flyin' Miata
>> >> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>> >> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>> >> www.flyinmiata.com
>> >> www.fmwestfield.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>> >> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J.
>> >> Douglas
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>> >> To: derf
>> >> Cc: miatapower@???
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>
>> >> Well, I consulted AllData.
>> >>
>> >> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>> >> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>> >>
>> >> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>> >> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car
>> >> on
>> >> a lift.
>> >>
>> >> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>> >>
>> >> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>> >> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still
>> >>> attached
>> >> to it.
>> >>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>> >>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> >>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Miatapower mailing list
>> >> Miatapower@???
>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 9
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:15:03 -0400
>> >> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>, derf <derf247@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <C863F577.10838%chad@???<C863F577.10838%25chad@???>
>> >
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Yup. Plugs out. Even a hydrolocked engine will move a little. This
>> >> engine
>> >> will not turn one micron. It's like it's welded.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 10:53 PM, "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Bill Cardell
>> >>> TurboDog's Dad
>> >>> Flyin' Miata
>> >>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>> >>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>> >>> www.flyinmiata.com
>> >>> www.fmwestfield.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>> >>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J.
>> Douglas
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>> >>> To: derf
>> >>> Cc: miatapower@???
>> >>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>>
>> >>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>> >>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>> >>>
>> >>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>> >>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car
>> on
>> >>> a lift.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>> >>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still
>> >>>> attached
>> >>> to it.
>> >>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became
>> >>>> lodged
>> >>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> >>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>> Miatapower@???
>> >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Miatapower mailing list
>> >> Miatapower@???
>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> End of Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>> >> *****************************************
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Miatapower mailing list
>> > Miatapower@???
>> > http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Miatapower@???
>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:21:36 -0400
> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
> To: Sam Sharp <miataturbo@???>
> Cc: Steven Jacobs <stevej@???>, "miatapower@???"
> <miatapower@???>
> Subject: Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs)
> Message-ID: <C8651040.10900%chad@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It rotated after last tq nut was installed.
>
> It rotated before starter installed.
>
> Did not test rotation after starter installed.
>
> Cannot easily get the bellhousing bolts off with engine in the car.
>
> Cannot loosen the TQ nuts if the engine wont turn and the tranny is
> installed.
>
> Instead of trying to remove the tranny with the engine in the car, I
> choose to remove the whole damn thing so I can get complete access from
> all angles.
>
>
> On 7/15/10 7:07 PM, "Sam Sharp" <miataturbo@???> wrote:
>
> I'm still trying to figure out the sequence. It sounds like you installed
> the tranny (tightening all of the bellhousing bolts?) and then rotated the
> engine (and torque converter?) while installing the TC bolts. All of this
> was with the engine out of the car. So it rotated until you did the last
> bolt? Did it rotate AFTER the last bolt? Then you installed the starter.
> Did it rotate before you installed the starter? Did it rotate after you
> installed the starter?
>
>
> So now the engine and tranny are in the car and it's locked up. You
> loosened the starter and it's still locked up. Can you loosen the
> bellhousing bolts with it in the car? Can you unbolt the torque converter
> with it in the car?
>
> Sam
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Chad J. Douglas <chad@???>
> wrote:
> They are studs, welded on.
>
>
> On 7/15/10 6:37 PM, "Steven Jacobs" <stevej@???> wrote:
>
>> Did you use the right bolts when connecting the torque converter to the
>> flex
>> plate. If they are too long they will keep the engine from turning.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <miatapower-request@???>
>> To: <miatapower@???>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:02 PM
>> Subject: Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>>
>>
>>> Send Miatapower mailing list submissions to
>>> miatapower@???
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Miatapower digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 2. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Ken Bogart)
>>> 3. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>>> 4. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>>> 5. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 6. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>>> 7. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 8. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>>> 9. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:03:09 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, Stephanie Turner
>>> <stepht@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>,
>>> "miatapower-bounces@???"
>>> <miatapower-bounces@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863AC5D.10808%chad@???
>>> <mailto:C863AC5D.10808%25chad@???> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>
>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>> the
>>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
>>> in
>>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>
>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>> (it's
>>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>> firmly
>>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>>> the
>>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the starter
>>> was
>>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>>> to
>>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine movement.
>>>
>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>> that
>>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>>> that
>>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>>> installed
>>> somehow.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>> could
>>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>> stumped,
>>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>>> combo
>>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of labor...so
>>> I'm
>>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
>>> still in the car to free it.
>>>
>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>> and
>>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>> crank
>>> bolt using the same method.
>>>
>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>
>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------
>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>>>> <stepht@???>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an e-mail.
>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>
>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:06:57 -0400
>>> From: Ken Bogart <miata@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower-bounces@???"
>>> <miatapower-bounces@???>, "miatapower@???"
>>> <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTimDZBbDfwtNSyLT_e7rWZCbNytoRBT43YbosFmk@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Its got to be the transmission. Sounds like its time to pull the engine
>>> again... If you're still at it Tuesday, I can come over and heckle....
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Chad J. Douglas
>>> <chad@???>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>>> the
>>>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
>>>> in
>>>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>>
>>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>>> (it's
>>>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>>> firmly
>>>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>>>> the
>>>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the
>>>> starter
>>>> was
>>>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>>>> to
>>>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine
>>>> movement.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>>> that
>>>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>>>> that
>>>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>>>> installed
>>>> somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>>> could
>>>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>>> stumped,
>>>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>>>> combo
>>>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of
>>>> labor...so
>>>> I'm
>>>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
>>>> still in the car to free it.
>>>>
>>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>>> and
>>>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>>> crank
>>>> bolt using the same method.
>>>>
>>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------
>>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner <
>>>> stepht@???>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>>>>>> e-mail.
>>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:12:15 -0600
>>> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "Stephanie Turner"
>>> <stepht@???>
>>> Cc: miatapower-bounces@???, miatapower@???
>>> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB15E@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Hmm. How about this? Maybe you didn't get the torque converter seated
>>> into the trans properly, so instead of it sliding onto splines, it's
>>> jammed, making the tq converter stick out too much? That's my new vote.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Cardell
>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>> Sales 1-800-359-6957
>>> Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out
>>> http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:03 PM
>>> To: Chad J. Douglas; Stephanie Turner
>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>
>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>
>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>> the cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>>> slack in the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>
>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>> (it's REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>> firmly fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
>>> levering the teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure
>>> if the starter was causing the bind, and since the starter was now
>>> loose, I would be able to see the starter move somewhat and get a small
>>> amount of engine movement.
>>>
>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>> that somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the
>>> engine...and that this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo
>>> was being installed somehow.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>> could the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>> stumped, and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and
>>> tranny combo again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot
>>> of labor...so I'm looking for any other ideas for things that can be
>>> done with the engine still in the car to free it.
>>>
>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>> and only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>> crank bolt using the same method.
>>>
>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>
>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------
>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>>>> <stepht@???>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>>> e-mail.
>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>
>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@???
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:42:07 -0600
>>> From: derf <derf247@???>
>>> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>
>>> Cc: miatapower@???, miatapower-bounces@???
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTilBPZokLsGlzDF1-7UdZ1U7NnqwadzbKHvG4mDa@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> I think you're on to something. Aren't you supposed to bolt the
>>> torque converter to the flex plate AFTER the motor/trans are bolted
>>> together?
>>>
>>> "The motor turned over just fine by hand while I was bolting the
>>> torque converter to the flexplate.
>>>
>>> Then, we installed the engine, and I proceeded to hook everything up. "
>>>
>>> You can bolt the TC on first but then it is sometimes hard to line up
>>> the splines and or the flats on the TC with the tranny input shaft and
>>> trans pump.
>>> Does the Miata auto TC have flats that engage the trans pump like
>>> other cars? If so, he might have damaged his pump.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:41:18 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> To: derf <derf247@???>, "miatapower@???"
>>> <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863DF7E.1082B%chad@???
>>> <mailto:C863DF7E.1082B%25chad@???> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Putting this reply back to the list so everyone interested can see:
>>>
>>> Yes. Here's the process:
>>>
>>>
>>> Engine and tranny are out of the car.
>>> I put the tq onto the input shaft of the tranny
>>> I mated the tranny to the engine, whilst simultaneously sliding the tq
>>> studs
>>> through the holes In the flexplate.
>>> I then put enough (but not all) the tranny bolts in to fully mate the
>>> engine
>>> and transmission.
>>> I then turned the motor over slowly to expose each tq stud so that I
>>> could
>>> put the nuts on. I installed all 4 nuts. I turned the engine one moer
>>> complete revolution to check them all.
>>> I then installed the starter.
>>> We then put the engine/tranny combo into the car.
>>>
>>>
>>> I did not try to turn the engine over again until the engine was fully
>>> installed and ready to test-fire.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 9:34 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, it turned after the motor/tranny bolts were tightened?
>>>> If so you need to pull the starter all the way off. Loosening the
>>>> bolts might not be good enough if the bendix is stuck to the
>>>> flexplate.
>>>>
>>>> Something is missing. More information is needed. Did you bolt the
>>>> tranny to the motor and then install them together?
>>>> Or, did you install the tranny with the motor in place?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:04:09 -0600
>>> From: derf <derf247@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTikasxgVx5HC_qqzb7R-p0MQO_UofYg1zUsHrxV5@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>> to
>>> it.
>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:13:03 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> To: derf <derf247@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863E6EF.10832%chad@???
>>> <mailto:C863E6EF.10832%25chad@???> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>
>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>> align
>>> the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>
>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>> remove
>>> that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on a
>>> lift.
>>>
>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>
>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>> anything
>>> until sometime on Saturday.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>>> to
>>>> it.
>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:53:44 -0600
>>> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "derf"
>>> <derf247@???>
>>> Cc: miatapower@???
>>> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB166@???>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Cardell
>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>> Flyin' Miata
>>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>>> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>>> To: derf
>>> Cc: miatapower@???
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>
>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>
>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>
>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on
>>> a lift.
>>>
>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>
>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>> to it.
>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@???
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:15:03 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>>> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>, derf <derf247@???>
>>> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863F577.10838%chad@???
>>> <mailto:C863F577.10838%25chad@???> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Yup. Plugs out. Even a hydrolocked engine will move a little. This
>>> engine
>>> will not turn one micron. It's like it's welded.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:53 PM, "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Cardell
>>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>>> Flyin' Miata
>>>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>>>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>>>> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>>> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>>>> To: derf
>>>> Cc: miatapower@???
>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>>
>>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>>
>>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car
>>>> on
>>>> a lift.
>>>>
>>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>>
>>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>>> to it.
>>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@???
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@???
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miatapower mailing list
>> Miatapower@???
>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>
> _______________________________________________
> Miatapower mailing list
> Miatapower@???
> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:57:05 -0600
> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
> To: <miatapower@???>
> Subject: Miatafest? And FM Summer Camp.
> Message-ID:
> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB196@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Anybody going? It's at Mazda R&D in Irvine on Saturday. Jeremy and I
> will be there. And don't forget FM's Summer Camp is only a few weeks
> away. Let us know if you're coming!
> http://www.flyinmiata.com/news/openhouse10/index.php
>
> Bill Cardell
> TurboDog's Dad
> www.flyinmiata.com
> www.fmwestfield.com
> Sales 1-800-359-6957
> Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out
> http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:51:20 -0600
> From: Sam Sharp <miataturbo@???>
> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
> Cc: Steven Jacobs <stevej@???>, "miatapower@???"
> <miatapower@???>
> Subject: Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs)
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTilVwI_k_2gBiYJpc0d1TtiGDkthd3zW3LxTvbMU@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> If it rotated after the last TC bolt was installed but not after the
> starter
> was installed, it kinda sounds like the starter. But it's loose now,
> right?
>
> I didn't mention "easily" :-)
>
> Sam
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Chad J. Douglas
> <chad@???>wrote:
>
>> It rotated after last tq nut was installed.
>>
>> It rotated before starter installed.
>>
>> Did not test rotation after starter installed.
>>
>> Cannot easily get the bellhousing bolts off with engine in the car.
>>
>> Cannot loosen the TQ nuts if the engine wont turn and the tranny is
>> installed.
>>
>> Instead of trying to remove the tranny with the engine in the car, I
>> choose
>> to remove the whole damn thing so I can get complete access from all
>> angles.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/15/10 7:07 PM, "Sam Sharp" <miataturbo@???> wrote:
>>
>> I'm still trying to figure out the sequence. It sounds like you
>> installed the tranny (tightening all of the bellhousing bolts?) and then
>> rotated the engine (and torque converter?) while installing the TC bolts.
>> All of this was with the engine out of the car. So it rotated until you
>> did
>> the last bolt? Did it rotate AFTER the last bolt? Then you installed
>> the
>> starter. Did it rotate before you installed the starter? Did it rotate
>> after you installed the starter?
>>
>>
>> So now the engine and tranny are in the car and it's locked up. You
>> loosened the starter and it's still locked up. Can you loosen the
>> bellhousing bolts with it in the car? Can you unbolt the torque
>> converter
>> with it in the car?
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Chad J. Douglas <chad@???>
>> wrote:
>>
>> They are studs, welded on.
>>
>>
>> On 7/15/10 6:37 PM, "Steven Jacobs" <stevej@???> wrote:
>>
>> > Did you use the right bolts when connecting the torque converter to the
>> flex
>> > plate. If they are too long they will keep the engine from turning.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <miatapower-request@???>
>> > To: <miatapower@???>
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:02 PM
>> > Subject: Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>> >
>> >
>> >> Send Miatapower mailing list submissions to
>> >> miatapower@???
>> >>
>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >> miatapower-request@???
>> >>
>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >> miatapower-owner@???
>> >>
>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >> than "Re: Contents of Miatapower digest..."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Today's Topics:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> >> 2. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Ken Bogart)
>> >> 3. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>> >> 4. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>> >> 5. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> >> 6. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>> >> 7. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> >> 8. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>> >> 9. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 1
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:03:09 -0400
>> >> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, Stephanie Turner
>> >> <stepht@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>,
>> >> "miatapower-bounces@???"
>> >> <miatapower-bounces@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID: <C863AC5D.10808%chad@??? <
>> mailto:C863AC5D.10808%25chad@???<C863AC5D.10808%25chad@???>>
>> >
>>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Crappity crap crap crap.
>> >>
>> >> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do
>> >> with
>> >> the
>> >> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>> >> slack
>> in
>> >> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>> >>
>> >> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>> >> (it's
>> >> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>> firmly
>> >> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>> the
>> >> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the
>> >> starter
>> >> was
>> >> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>> to
>> >> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine
>> >> movement.
>> >>
>> >> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>> that
>> >> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>> that
>> >> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>> installed
>> >> somehow.
>> >>
>> >> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>> >> could
>> >> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>> stumped,
>> >> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>> >> combo
>> >> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of
>> >> labor...so
>> >> I'm
>> >> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the
>> >> engine
>> >> still in the car to free it.
>> >>
>> >> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt
>> >> and
>> >> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>> and
>> >> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>> crank
>> >> bolt using the same method.
>> >>
>> >> Something's got the engine held fast.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>> >>>
>> >>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------
>> >>> Chad Douglas
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>> >>> <stepht@???>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Stephanie
>> >>>>
>> >>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>> >>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>> >>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>> >>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>> >>>> e-mail.
>> >>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@??? <derf247@???>]
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>> >>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>> >>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> >>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>> >>>> manual and auto cars?
>> >>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>> Miatapower@???
>> >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 2
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:06:57 -0400
>> >> From: Ken Bogart <miata@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower-bounces@???"
>> >> <miatapower-bounces@???>, "miatapower@???"
>> >> <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <AANLkTimDZBbDfwtNSyLT_e7rWZCbNytoRBT43YbosFmk@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >>
>> >> Its got to be the transmission. Sounds like its time to pull the
>> >> engine
>> >> again... If you're still at it Tuesday, I can come over and
>> >> heckle....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ken
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Chad J. Douglas
>> >> <chad@???>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>> >>>
>> >>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do
>> >>> with
>> >>> the
>> >>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>> >>> slack
>> >>> in
>> >>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>> >>>
>> >>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>> >>> (it's
>> >>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>> firmly
>> >>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
>> >>> levering
>> >>> the
>> >>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the
>> starter
>> >>> was
>> >>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be
>> >>> able
>> to
>> >>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine
>> movement.
>> >>>
>> >>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>> that
>> >>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>> >>> that
>> >>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>> installed
>> >>> somehow.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>> >>> could
>> >>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>> >>> stumped,
>> >>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>> >>> combo
>> >>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of
>> labor...so
>> >>> I'm
>> >>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the
>> >>> engine
>> >>> still in the car to free it.
>> >>>
>> >>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt
>> >>> and
>> >>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>> and
>> >>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>> crank
>> >>> bolt using the same method.
>> >>>
>> >>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------------------------
>> >>>> Chad Douglas
>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner <
>> >>> stepht@???>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Stephanie
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>> >>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>> >>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>> >>>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>> e-mail.
>> >>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@??? <derf247@???>]
>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>> >>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>> >>>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>> >>>>> manual and auto cars?
>> >>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>> Miatapower@???
>> >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL:
>> >> <
>> http://list.miatapower.net/lurker/list/miatapower.html/attachments/20100714/
>> >> 4ef90395/attachment.html>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 3
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:12:15 -0600
>> >> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "Stephanie Turner"
>> >> <stepht@???>
>> >> Cc: miatapower-bounces@???, miatapower@???
>> >> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB15E@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Hmm. How about this? Maybe you didn't get the torque converter seated
>> >> into the trans properly, so instead of it sliding onto splines, it's
>> >> jammed, making the tq converter stick out too much? That's my new
>> >> vote.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bill Cardell
>> >> TurboDog's Dad
>> >> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>> >> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>> >> Sales 1-800-359-6957
>> >> Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out
>> >> http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>> >> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???<miatapower-bounces@???>]
>> On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:03 PM
>> >> To: Chad J. Douglas; Stephanie Turner
>> >> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>
>> >> Crappity crap crap crap.
>> >>
>> >> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do
>> >> with
>> >> the cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>> >> slack in the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>> >>
>> >> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>> >> (it's REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no
>> >> longer
>> >> firmly fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
>> >> levering the teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure
>> >> if the starter was causing the bind, and since the starter was now
>> >> loose, I would be able to see the starter move somewhat and get a
>> >> small
>> >> amount of engine movement.
>> >>
>> >> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>> >> that somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the
>> >> engine...and that this must've occurred while the engine / tranny
>> >> combo
>> >> was being installed somehow.
>> >>
>> >> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>> >> could the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked?
>> >> I'm
>> >> stumped, and my next course of action would be to remove the engine
>> >> and
>> >> tranny combo again to get better access to everything, but that's a
>> >> lot
>> >> of labor...so I'm looking for any other ideas for things that can be
>> >> done with the engine still in the car to free it.
>> >>
>> >> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt
>> >> and
>> >> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>> >> and only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened
>> >> the
>> >> crank bolt using the same method.
>> >>
>> >> Something's got the engine held fast.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>> >>>
>> >>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------
>> >>> Chad Douglas
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>> >>> <stepht@???>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Stephanie
>> >>>>
>> >>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>> >>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>> >>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>> >>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>> >> e-mail.
>> >>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@??? <derf247@???>]
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>> >>>> To: Walt_Helsel@???
>> >>>> Cc: miatapower@???; miatapower-bounces@???
>> >>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>> >>>> manual and auto cars?
>> >>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>>> Miatapower@???
>> >>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>> Miatapower@???
>> >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Miatapower mailing list
>> >> Miatapower@???
>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 4
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:42:07 -0600
>> >> From: derf <derf247@???>
>> >> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>
>> >> Cc: miatapower@???, miatapower-bounces@???
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <AANLkTilBPZokLsGlzDF1-7UdZ1U7NnqwadzbKHvG4mDa@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >>
>> >> I think you're on to something. Aren't you supposed to bolt the
>> >> torque converter to the flex plate AFTER the motor/trans are bolted
>> >> together?
>> >>
>> >> "The motor turned over just fine by hand while I was bolting the
>> >> torque converter to the flexplate.
>> >>
>> >> Then, we installed the engine, and I proceeded to hook everything up.
>> >> "
>> >>
>> >> You can bolt the TC on first but then it is sometimes hard to line up
>> >> the splines and or the flats on the TC with the tranny input shaft and
>> >> trans pump.
>> >> Does the Miata auto TC have flats that engage the trans pump like
>> >> other cars? If so, he might have damaged his pump.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 5
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:41:18 -0400
>> >> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> To: derf <derf247@???>, "miatapower@???"
>> >> <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID: <C863DF7E.1082B%chad@??? <
>> mailto:C863DF7E.1082B%25chad@???<C863DF7E.1082B%25chad@???>>
>> >
>>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Putting this reply back to the list so everyone interested can see:
>> >>
>> >> Yes. Here's the process:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Engine and tranny are out of the car.
>> >> I put the tq onto the input shaft of the tranny
>> >> I mated the tranny to the engine, whilst simultaneously sliding the tq
>> >> studs
>> >> through the holes In the flexplate.
>> >> I then put enough (but not all) the tranny bolts in to fully mate the
>> >> engine
>> >> and transmission.
>> >> I then turned the motor over slowly to expose each tq stud so that I
>> could
>> >> put the nuts on. I installed all 4 nuts. I turned the engine one
>> >> moer
>> >> complete revolution to check them all.
>> >> I then installed the starter.
>> >> We then put the engine/tranny combo into the car.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I did not try to turn the engine over again until the engine was fully
>> >> installed and ready to test-fire.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 9:34 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> So, it turned after the motor/tranny bolts were tightened?
>> >>> If so you need to pull the starter all the way off. Loosening the
>> >>> bolts might not be good enough if the bendix is stuck to the
>> >>> flexplate.
>> >>>
>> >>> Something is missing. More information is needed. Did you bolt the
>> >>> tranny to the motor and then install them together?
>> >>> Or, did you install the tranny with the motor in place?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 6
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:04:09 -0600
>> >> From: derf <derf247@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <AANLkTikasxgVx5HC_qqzb7R-p0MQO_UofYg1zUsHrxV5@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >>
>> >> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>> to
>> >> it.
>> >> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>> >> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> >> Inquiring minds want to know.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 7
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:13:03 -0400
>> >> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> To: derf <derf247@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID: <C863E6EF.10832%chad@??? <
>> mailto:C863E6EF.10832%25chad@???<C863E6EF.10832%25chad@???>>
>> >
>>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Well, I consulted AllData.
>> >>
>> >> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>> >> align
>> >> the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>> >>
>> >> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>> remove
>> >> that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on a
>> lift.
>> >>
>> >> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>> >>
>> >> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>> anything
>> >> until sometime on Saturday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still
>> >>> attached
>> to
>> >>> it.
>> >>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>> >>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> >>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 8
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:53:44 -0600
>> >> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???>
>> >> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>, "derf"
>> >> <derf247@???>
>> >> Cc: miatapower@???
>> >> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB166@???>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bill Cardell
>> >> TurboDog's Dad
>> >> Flyin' Miata
>> >> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>> >> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>> >> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>> >> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>> >> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???<miatapower-bounces@???>]
>> On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>> >> To: derf
>> >> Cc: miatapower@???
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>
>> >> Well, I consulted AllData.
>> >>
>> >> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>> >> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>> >>
>> >> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>> >> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car
>> >> on
>> >> a lift.
>> >>
>> >> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>> >>
>> >> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>> >> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still
>> >>> attached
>> >> to it.
>> >>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>> >>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> >>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Miatapower mailing list
>> >> Miatapower@???
>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 9
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:15:03 -0400
>> >> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
>> >> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@???>, derf <derf247@???>
>> >> Cc: "miatapower@???" <miatapower@???>
>> >> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >> Message-ID: <C863F577.10838%chad@??? <
>> mailto:C863F577.10838%25chad@???<C863F577.10838%25chad@???>>
>> >
>>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Yup. Plugs out. Even a hydrolocked engine will move a little. This
>> >> engine
>> >> will not turn one micron. It's like it's welded.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/14/10 10:53 PM, "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Bill Cardell
>> >>> TurboDog's Dad
>> >>> Flyin' Miata
>> >>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>> >>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>> >>> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>> >>> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>> >>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???<miatapower-bounces@???>]
>> On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>> >>> To: derf
>> >>> Cc: miatapower@???
>> >>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>> >>>
>> >>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>> >>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>> >>>
>> >>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>> >>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car
>> on
>> >>> a lift.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>> >>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still
>> >>>> attached
>> >>> to it.
>> >>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became
>> >>>> lodged
>> >>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>> >>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>> >>> Miatapower@???
>> >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Miatapower mailing list
>> >> Miatapower@???
>> >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> End of Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>> >> *****************************************
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Miatapower mailing list
>> > Miatapower@???
>> > http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miatapower mailing list
>> Miatapower@???
>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>>
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://list.miatapower.net/lurker/list/miatapower.html/attachments/20100715/cce92c94/attachment.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:56:42 -0400
> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???>
> To: Sam Sharp <miataturbo@???>
> Cc: Steven Jacobs <stevej@???>, "miatapower@???"
> <miatapower@???>
> Subject: Re: My turn: Engine seized? (Steve Jacobs)
> Message-ID: <C865268A.1090D%chad@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> It?s not the starter. The starter is loose enough that if it were the
> starter, I would be able to move the engine a teeeeeeeeeny bit and see the
> starter flex or rock when it did. The engine does not move even 1mm.
>
> I know the adage of ?what did you do last? but there were entirely too
> many things that occurred between the time that I last rotated the engine
> and when I discovered the lock.
>
> If it turns out to be the starter, I?ll owe you a ham sandwich, and I?ll
> mail it out via parcel post immediately.
>
> :p
>
> Chad
>
>
> On 7/15/10 8:51 PM, "Sam Sharp" <miataturbo@???> wrote:
>
> If it rotated after the last TC bolt was installed but not after the
> starter was installed, it kinda sounds like the starter. But it's loose
> now, right?
>
> I didn't mention "easily" :-)
>
> Sam
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Chad J. Douglas <chad@???>
> wrote:
> It rotated after last tq nut was installed.
>
> It rotated before starter installed.
>
> Did not test rotation after starter installed.
>
> Cannot easily get the bellhousing bolts off with engine in the car.
>
> Cannot loosen the TQ nuts if the engine wont turn and the tranny is
> installed.
>
> Instead of trying to remove the tranny with the engine in the car, I
> choose to remove the whole damn thing so I can get complete access from
> all angles.
>
>
>
> On 7/15/10 7:07 PM, "Sam Sharp" <miataturbo@???
> <http://miataturbo@gmail.com> > wrote:
>
> I'm still trying to figure out the sequence. It sounds like you installed
> the tranny (tightening all of the bellhousing bolts?) and then rotated the
> engine (and torque converter?) while installing the TC bolts. All of this
> was with the engine out of the car. So it rotated until you did the last
> bolt? Did it rotate AFTER the last bolt? Then you installed the starter.
> Did it rotate before you installed the starter? Did it rotate after you
> installed the starter?
>
>
> So now the engine and tranny are in the car and it's locked up. You
> loosened the starter and it's still locked up. Can you loosen the
> bellhousing bolts with it in the car? Can you unbolt the torque converter
> with it in the car?
>
> Sam
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Chad J. Douglas <chad@???
> <http://chad@linuxpupil.com> > wrote:
> They are studs, welded on.
>
>
> On 7/15/10 6:37 PM, "Steven Jacobs" <stevej@???
> <http://stevej@astound.net> > wrote:
>
>> Did you use the right bolts when connecting the torque converter to the
>> flex
>> plate. If they are too long they will keep the engine from turning.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <miatapower-request@???
>> <http://miatapower-request@miatapower.net> >
>> To: <miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> >
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:02 PM
>> Subject: Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>>
>>
>>> Send Miatapower mailing list submissions to
>>> miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> miatapower-request@???
>>> <http://miatapower-request@miatapower.net>
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> miatapower-owner@??? <http://miatapower-owner@miatapower.net>
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Miatapower digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 2. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Ken Bogart)
>>> 3. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>>> 4. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>>> 5. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 6. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
>>> 7. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>> 8. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
>>> 9. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:03:09 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???
>>> <http://chad@linuxpupil.com> >
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@??? <http://chad@linuxpupil.com>
>>> >, Stephanie Turner
>>> <stepht@??? <http://stepht@bellengineering.net> >
>>> Cc: "miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> "
>>> <miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> >,
>>> "miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net> "
>>> <miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net> >
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863AC5D.10808%chad@???
>>> <mailto:C863AC5D.10808%25chad@???> >
>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>
>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>> the
>>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
>>> in
>>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>
>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>> (it's
>>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>> firmly
>>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>>> the
>>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the starter
>>> was
>>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>>> to
>>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine movement.
>>>
>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>> that
>>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>>> that
>>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>>> installed
>>> somehow.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>> could
>>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>> stumped,
>>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>>> combo
>>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of labor...so
>>> I'm
>>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
>>> still in the car to free it.
>>>
>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>> and
>>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>> crank
>>> bolt using the same method.
>>>
>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???
>>> <http://chad@linuxpupil.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>
>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------
>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>>>> <stepht@??? <http://stepht@bellengineering.net> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>> <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an e-mail.
>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@??? <http://Walt_Helsel@???>
>>>>> Cc: miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> ;
>>>>> miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>
>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:06:57 -0400
>>> From: Ken Bogart <miata@??? <http://miata@thebogarts.net> >
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@??? <http://chad@linuxpupil.com>
>>> >
>>> Cc: "miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net> "
>>> <miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net> >, "miatapower@???
>>> <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> "
>>> <miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> >
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTimDZBbDfwtNSyLT_e7rWZCbNytoRBT43YbosFmk@???
>>> <http://AANLkTimDZBbDfwtNSyLT_e7rWZCbNytoRBT43YbosFmk@???> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Its got to be the transmission. Sounds like its time to pull the engine
>>> again... If you're still at it Tuesday, I can come over and heckle....
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Chad J. Douglas
>>> <chad@???>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>>> the
>>>> cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
>>>> in
>>>> the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>>
>>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>>> (it's
>>>> REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>>> firmly
>>>> fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
>>>> the
>>>> teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the
>>>> starter
>>>> was
>>>> causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able
>>>> to
>>>> see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine
>>>> movement.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>>> that
>>>> somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
>>>> that
>>>> this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being
>>>> installed
>>>> somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>>> could
>>>> the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>>> stumped,
>>>> and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
>>>> combo
>>>> again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of
>>>> labor...so
>>>> I'm
>>>> looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
>>>> still in the car to free it.
>>>>
>>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>>> and
>>>> only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>>> crank
>>>> bolt using the same method.
>>>>
>>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???
>>>> <http://chad@linuxpupil.com> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------
>>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner <
>>>> stepht@??? <http://stepht@bellengineering.net> >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>>> <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>>>>>> e-mail.
>>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@??? <http://Walt_Helsel@???>
>>>>>> Cc: miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> ;
>>>>>> miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:12:15 -0600
>>> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@??? <http://Bill@flyinmiata.com> >
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@??? <http://chad@linuxpupil.com>
>>> >, "Stephanie Turner"
>>> <stepht@??? <http://stepht@bellengineering.net> >
>>> Cc: miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net> , miatapower@???
>>> <http://miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB15E@???
>>> <http://2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB15E@sbserver.FlyinMiata.local>
>>> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Hmm. How about this? Maybe you didn't get the torque converter seated
>>> into the trans properly, so instead of it sliding onto splines, it's
>>> jammed, making the tq converter stick out too much? That's my new vote.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Cardell
>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>> <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>> <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>> Sales 1-800-359-6957
>>> Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out
>>> http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net>
>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:03 PM
>>> To: Chad J. Douglas; Stephanie Turner
>>> Cc: miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> ;
>>> miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>
>>> Crappity crap crap crap.
>>>
>>> There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
>>> the cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
>>> slack in the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
>>>
>>> I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
>>> (it's REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
>>> firmly fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
>>> levering the teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure
>>> if the starter was causing the bind, and since the starter was now
>>> loose, I would be able to see the starter move somewhat and get a small
>>> amount of engine movement.
>>>
>>> Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
>>> that somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the
>>> engine...and that this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo
>>> was being installed somehow.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
>>> could the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
>>> stumped, and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and
>>> tranny combo again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot
>>> of labor...so I'm looking for any other ideas for things that can be
>>> done with the engine still in the car to free it.
>>>
>>> I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
>>> tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
>>> and only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
>>> crank bolt using the same method.
>>>
>>> Something's got the engine held fast.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <chad@???
>>> <http://chad@linuxpupil.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>>>>
>>>> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------
>>>> Chad Douglas
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
>>>> <stepht@??? <http://stepht@bellengineering.net> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>>>>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>>>>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>>>>> www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>> <http://www.bellengineering.net/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
>>> e-mail.
>>>>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: derf [mailto:derf247@???]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>>> To: Walt_Helsel@??? <http://Walt_Helsel@???>
>>>>> Cc: miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> ;
>>>>> miatapower-bounces@???
>>>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>>
>>>>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>>>>> manual and auto cars?
>>>>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:42:07 -0600
>>> From: derf <derf247@??? <http://derf247@gmail.com> >
>>> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@??? <http://Bill@flyinmiata.com> >
>>> Cc: miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> ,
>>> miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTilBPZokLsGlzDF1-7UdZ1U7NnqwadzbKHvG4mDa@???
>>> <http://AANLkTilBPZokLsGlzDF1-7UdZ1U7NnqwadzbKHvG4mDa@mail.gmail.com> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> I think you're on to something. Aren't you supposed to bolt the
>>> torque converter to the flex plate AFTER the motor/trans are bolted
>>> together?
>>>
>>> "The motor turned over just fine by hand while I was bolting the
>>> torque converter to the flexplate.
>>>
>>> Then, we installed the engine, and I proceeded to hook everything up. "
>>>
>>> You can bolt the TC on first but then it is sometimes hard to line up
>>> the splines and or the flats on the TC with the tranny input shaft and
>>> trans pump.
>>> Does the Miata auto TC have flats that engage the trans pump like
>>> other cars? If so, he might have damaged his pump.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:41:18 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???
>>> <http://chad@linuxpupil.com> >
>>> To: derf <derf247@??? <http://derf247@gmail.com> >,
>>> "miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> "
>>> <miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> >
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863DF7E.1082B%chad@???
>>> <mailto:C863DF7E.1082B%25chad@???> >
>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Putting this reply back to the list so everyone interested can see:
>>>
>>> Yes. Here's the process:
>>>
>>>
>>> Engine and tranny are out of the car.
>>> I put the tq onto the input shaft of the tranny
>>> I mated the tranny to the engine, whilst simultaneously sliding the tq
>>> studs
>>> through the holes In the flexplate.
>>> I then put enough (but not all) the tranny bolts in to fully mate the
>>> engine
>>> and transmission.
>>> I then turned the motor over slowly to expose each tq stud so that I
>>> could
>>> put the nuts on. I installed all 4 nuts. I turned the engine one moer
>>> complete revolution to check them all.
>>> I then installed the starter.
>>> We then put the engine/tranny combo into the car.
>>>
>>>
>>> I did not try to turn the engine over again until the engine was fully
>>> installed and ready to test-fire.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 9:34 PM, "derf" <derf247@??? <http://derf247@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, it turned after the motor/tranny bolts were tightened?
>>>> If so you need to pull the starter all the way off. Loosening the
>>>> bolts might not be good enough if the bendix is stuck to the
>>>> flexplate.
>>>>
>>>> Something is missing. More information is needed. Did you bolt the
>>>> tranny to the motor and then install them together?
>>>> Or, did you install the tranny with the motor in place?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:04:09 -0600
>>> From: derf <derf247@??? <http://derf247@gmail.com> >
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@??? <http://chad@linuxpupil.com>
>>> >
>>> Cc: "miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> "
>>> <miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> >
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AANLkTikasxgVx5HC_qqzb7R-p0MQO_UofYg1zUsHrxV5@???
>>> <http://AANLkTikasxgVx5HC_qqzb7R-p0MQO_UofYg1zUsHrxV5@???> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>> to
>>> it.
>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:13:03 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???
>>> <http://chad@linuxpupil.com> >
>>> To: derf <derf247@??? <http://derf247@gmail.com> >
>>> Cc: "miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> "
>>> <miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> >
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863E6EF.10832%chad@???
>>> <mailto:C863E6EF.10832%25chad@???> >
>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>
>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>> align
>>> the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>
>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>> remove
>>> that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on a
>>> lift.
>>>
>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>
>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>> anything
>>> until sometime on Saturday.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???
>>> <http://derf247@gmail.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>>> to
>>>> it.
>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:53:44 -0600
>>> From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@??? <http://Bill@flyinmiata.com> >
>>> To: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@??? <http://chad@linuxpupil.com>
>>> >, "derf"
>>> <derf247@??? <http://derf247@gmail.com> >
>>> Cc: miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>> Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB166@???
>>> <http://2EEBE11AD8F85D438932B597700270A8BDB166@sbserver.FlyinMiata.local>
>>> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Cardell
>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>> Flyin' Miata
>>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>>> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>> <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>> <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net>
>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>>> To: derf
>>> Cc: miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>
>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>
>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>
>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on
>>> a lift.
>>>
>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>
>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???
>>> <http://derf247@gmail.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>> to it.
>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:15:03 -0400
>>> From: "Chad J. Douglas" <chad@???
>>> <http://chad@linuxpupil.com> >
>>> To: Bill Cardell <Bill@??? <http://Bill@flyinmiata.com> >,
>>> derf <derf247@??? <http://derf247@gmail.com> >
>>> Cc: "miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> "
>>> <miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net> >
>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>> Message-ID: <C863F577.10838%chad@???
>>> <mailto:C863F577.10838%25chad@???> >
>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Yup. Plugs out. Even a hydrolocked engine will move a little. This
>>> engine
>>> will not turn one micron. It's like it's welded.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/10 10:53 PM, "Bill Cardell" <Bill@???
>>> <http://Bill@flyinmiata.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Cardell
>>>> TurboDog's Dad
>>>> Flyin' Miata
>>>> 1-800-359-6967 (sales)
>>>> 970-464-5600 (tech support)
>>>> www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>>> <http://www.flyinmiata.com/>
>>>> www.fmwestfield.com <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>>> <http://www.fmwestfield.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: miatapower-bounces@???
>>>> <http://miatapower-bounces@miatapower.net>
>>>> [mailto:miatapower-bounces@???] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
>>>> To: derf
>>>> Cc: miatapower@??? <http://miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I consulted AllData.
>>>>
>>>> I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
>>>> align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
>>>>
>>>> It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
>>>> remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car
>>>> on
>>>> a lift.
>>>>
>>>> I'm doing this on jackstands.
>>>>
>>>> I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
>>>> anything until sometime on Saturday.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <derf247@???
>>>> <http://derf247@gmail.com> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
>>>> to it.
>>>>> Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
>>>>> when you tilted to do the drop in.
>>>>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Miatapower mailing list
>>> Miatapower@??? <http://Miatapower@miatapower.net>
>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miatapower mailing list
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